Comments on: Choosing the life http://www.pilgrimsoldier.net/2008/07/choosing-the-life/ Charting the journey of a Salvation Army Cadet Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:17:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7-beta3 hourly 1 By: Eleanor Burne-Jones http://www.pilgrimsoldier.net/2008/07/choosing-the-life/comment-page-1/#comment-2308 Eleanor Burne-Jones Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:06:39 +0000 http://www.pilgrimsoldier.net/?p=556#comment-2308 Yes, by blessing, I intended to express that they should be content to be a blessing in some way to the disciple and actually ask themselves if what they are doing is being seen as a blessing by the disciple or not. If not, what is going wrong? It is about not being acquisitive and trying to own or control the disciples, asking 'what can this person contribute to my church?' but asking instead 'What can I (and the group) do to help you as a disciple grow in service and faith in whatever direction God is calling you?' That is the position of generosity and affirmation that communicates that the disciple is loved and valued for who they are, and that their ministry whereever it is happening is where you recognise God is working through them. It conveys your commitment to be a blessing to them, rather than declaring your optimistic intention that they might one day become a blessing to your church! Risky stuff, but many people are tired of the church making unending demands on their time and money, and the local church can eventually become a 'project' they decide to leave to others in order to find where they can be genuinely appreciated for who they are. Yes, by blessing, I intended to express that they should be content to be a blessing in some way to the disciple and actually ask themselves if what they are doing is being seen as a blessing by the disciple or not. If not, what is going wrong? It is about not being acquisitive and trying to own or control the disciples, asking ‘what can this person contribute to my church?’ but asking instead ‘What can I (and the group) do to help you as a disciple grow in service and faith in whatever direction God is calling you?’ That is the position of generosity and affirmation that communicates that the disciple is loved and valued for who they are, and that their ministry whereever it is happening is where you recognise God is working through them. It conveys your commitment to be a blessing to them, rather than declaring your optimistic intention that they might one day become a blessing to your church!

Risky stuff, but many people are tired of the church making unending demands on their time and money, and the local church can eventually become a ‘project’ they decide to leave to others in order to find where they can be genuinely appreciated for who they are.

]]> By: Graeme http://www.pilgrimsoldier.net/2008/07/choosing-the-life/comment-page-1/#comment-2306 Graeme Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:11:52 +0000 http://www.pilgrimsoldier.net/?p=556#comment-2306 Maybe you're right with the issue of a lack of trust! It's certainly a point that Bill Hull raises in the book. One of the other problems though is that people are content with the 'cinema model' because it means that they don't have to engage too much, as you say they find it exhausting. Real discipleship needs to find that delicate balance that includes the inner spiritual life with its practical outworking in the world. Anything less than that balance will lead to an over-emphasis on one of the two sides! One final thought, I'm not sure that it is up to the leaders to find ways that they can bless people as they grow in discipleship. This simply reverts to the Christendom model that places all the responsibility on leadership to do the work. If the traditional model of church shows us anything it is that too much expectation has been placed on the professional 'clergy' that is both detrimental to them and to the laity. We all have to work out our faith in fear and trembling and there has to be an acceptance by everyone that they have some responsibility for their own discipleship, whilst remaining in community with others. Maybe you’re right with the issue of a lack of trust! It’s certainly a point that Bill Hull raises in the book. One of the other problems though is that people are content with the ‘cinema model’ because it means that they don’t have to engage too much, as you say they find it exhausting.

Real discipleship needs to find that delicate balance that includes the inner spiritual life with its practical outworking in the world. Anything less than that balance will lead to an over-emphasis on one of the two sides!

One final thought, I’m not sure that it is up to the leaders to find ways that they can bless people as they grow in discipleship. This simply reverts to the Christendom model that places all the responsibility on leadership to do the work. If the traditional model of church shows us anything it is that too much expectation has been placed on the professional ‘clergy’ that is both detrimental to them and to the laity. We all have to work out our faith in fear and trembling and there has to be an acceptance by everyone that they have some responsibility for their own discipleship, whilst remaining in community with others.

]]> By: Eleanor Burne-Jones http://www.pilgrimsoldier.net/2008/07/choosing-the-life/comment-page-1/#comment-2302 Eleanor Burne-Jones Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:48:41 +0000 http://www.pilgrimsoldier.net/?p=556#comment-2302 I would say in the UK the biggest issue out there is trust levels, rather than people not wanting to commit. People will often open up and share their desire to grow in faith and discipleship in an environment that connects with them where they are. Christendom church has perhaps lacked or lost the ability to create those safe places where people can learn to trust one another in the discipleship journey, learn to tolerate each other making mistakes. Hierarchical and modernity minded churches don't exactly lend themselves to creating this environment? Having said that, many people are simply not that 'religious'. They can have very little in the way of spiritual experience, and that's the way they naturally are. They can find it exhausting being in a church setting that places high priority on an intense inner spiritual life. That challenges leaders to find other ways in which to explore how they can bless them as they grow in discipleship. I would say in the UK the biggest issue out there is trust levels, rather than people not wanting to commit. People will often open up and share their desire to grow in faith and discipleship in an environment that connects with them where they are. Christendom church has perhaps lacked or lost the ability to create those safe places where people can learn to trust one another in the discipleship journey, learn to tolerate each other making mistakes. Hierarchical and modernity minded churches don’t exactly lend themselves to creating this environment? Having said that, many people are simply not that ‘religious’. They can have very little in the way of spiritual experience, and that’s the way they naturally are. They can find it exhausting being in a church setting that places high priority on an intense inner spiritual life. That challenges leaders to find other ways in which to explore how they can bless them as they grow in discipleship.

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